The Pac 10 and Big 10 need to expand

djwhokid · 11-17-2007, 05:51 PM

Both conferences need to expand to 12 teams and have a championship game at the end of the year:

Is this possible:

Pac 12:

Northwest:

Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
Hawaii
Boise State

Pacific:

USC
Stanford
UCLA
Arizona
Arizona State
California

Big 12:

Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Purdue
Indiana
Notre Dame

Penn State
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Northwestern
Minnesota

LongtimeBravesFan · 11-17-2007, 09:47 PM

No, it is not possible for Hawaii to be in the Northwest.

frenchman · 11-18-2007, 09:34 AM

When they are scheduling teams like Duke in their final home game...they barely have a place in Div 1

bedir than average · 11-18-2007, 04:22 PM

I think the miss is Hawaii. They don't belong in a major conference as they wouldn't increase the conference's appeal and they aren't successful in both sports, even occaissionally.

Boise State would be a solid addition for the PAC though. They are already an associate member in many sports.

BYU would be the best get for the 12th team. Large fanbase, occaissional success in both top programs and BYU is looking at earning more money from tv/radio contracts. A move to the PAC would more than double their revenue from those sources.

If Notre Dame was willing to give up its NBC contract the BIG-midwest would make sense, except that ND is already a member of the BigEast for basketball. Since the Big East is a BCS conference it wouldn't make sense for ND to leave their affiliation, but instead join that.

The Big-10, which would have to change its name, would do better to target ConfUSA member Marshall. A school with a fine historical legacy that has placed some decent talent in the NFL. Another good option would be Western Kentucky (joining the SunBelt in 09 for football) or Cincinatti, though that would steal from another BCS conference again.

Thing is if the BCS (top 6 conference) element is to be maintained, they should really be the only conferences competing at that level and each conference should be 12 teams with a championship.

That means that the PAC needs 2, Big-10 needs 1, Big East needs 4 for football. The PAC should get those from either the WAC or MtnWest. The Big 10 should target ND, the MAAC, Marshall or Cinci, and the BIG-East goes after other ConfUSA teams or ND.

That would put the top level of NCAA football at 72 teams, and with the Conference champions plus two at larges going to an 8 team playoff would get an actual champion.

LongtimeBravesFan · 11-21-2007, 10:33 AM

A tourney in which a third of the teams can't participate does not produce a true champion.

Notre Dame would be much smarter to join the Big 10 due to the higher profile that conference has in football.

Unless they get greedy and want a title game there is no reason for the Pac 10 to expand. There isn't a team that would give it much of a boost in football or basketball.

bedir than average · 11-23-2007, 09:35 PM

I would say that since there would be 3 or 4 teams in the running to be a conference champion in the last two weeks of the conference season that would mean that 20-30 teams would be in the running with two weeks to go, or about 40%, right in line with every other sport.

LongtimeBravesFan · 11-25-2007, 02:33 PM

So you'd just ban 50 teams in Division I-A from ever becoming national champion?

bedir than average · 11-25-2007, 04:33 PM

Teams that have little fan support, little history, and that have no shot now would be moved to a lower level with the other teams with the same situation.

Does North Texas really need a shot at the top title? Western Michigan? Utah State?

They don't have a chance now, and neither do 70 other teams.

LongtimeBravesFan · 11-25-2007, 06:59 PM

So would you kick out half the teams that play Division I basketball while you're at it?

bedir than average · 11-25-2007, 07:06 PM

Are you really playing at any level if that level forbids those even that have perfect seasons from competing for a championship?

I would actually just reduce the size by about 30%. 8 Conferences of 12 teams seems about right. 96 teams that would, if winning, compete for a title.

billybob · 12-03-2007, 02:10 PM

Hawaii and BSU in Pac 10? I don't see it. The best choice for PAC 10 expansion is BYU-UTAH. It makes the best sense financially
(BYU and UTAH have bigger markets - bigger stadiums and more importantly bring in more fans to both home and away games-particularly when they play Pac 10 teams) Academically (both BYU and UTAH are superior) have much better overall sporting programs (Hawaii is having a good year in football this year, and BSU was had a good run in football, but that is it - no other sports) they have the rivalry the Pac 10 loves, plus a bunch more reasons that if they would expand BYU/Utah would be the best choice. Sorry BSU!

But.... I don't see the PAC 10 expanding any time soon, so don't hold your breath.

11-18-2007, 09:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
frenchman Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,553	Notre Dame When they are scheduling teams like Duke in their final home game...they barely have a place in Div 1

11-18-2007, 04:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	I think the miss is Hawaii. They don't belong in a major conference as they wouldn't increase the conference's appeal and they aren't successful in both sports, even occaissionally. Boise State would be a solid addition for the PAC though. They are already an associate member in many sports. BYU would be the best get for the 12th team. Large fanbase, occaissional success in both top programs and BYU is looking at earning more money from tv/radio contracts. A move to the PAC would more than double their revenue from those sources. If Notre Dame was willing to give up its NBC contract the BIG-midwest would make sense, except that ND is already a member of the BigEast for basketball. Since the Big East is a BCS conference it wouldn't make sense for ND to leave their affiliation, but instead join that. The Big-10, which would have to change its name, would do better to target ConfUSA member Marshall. A school with a fine historical legacy that has placed some decent talent in the NFL. Another good option would be Western Kentucky (joining the SunBelt in 09 for football) or Cincinatti, though that would steal from another BCS conference again. Thing is if the BCS (top 6 conference) element is to be maintained, they should really be the only conferences competing at that level and each conference should be 12 teams with a championship. That means that the PAC needs 2, Big-10 needs 1, Big East needs 4 for football. The PAC should get those from either the WAC or MtnWest. The Big 10 should target ND, the MAAC, Marshall or Cinci, and the BIG-East goes after other ConfUSA teams or ND. That would put the top level of NCAA football at 72 teams, and with the Conference champions plus two at larges going to an 8 team playoff would get an actual champion. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-23-2007, 09:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	I would say that since there would be 3 or 4 teams in the running to be a conference champion in the last two weeks of the conference season that would mean that 20-30 teams would be in the running with two weeks to go, or about 40%, right in line with every other sport. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-25-2007, 04:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	Teams that have little fan support, little history, and that have no shot now would be moved to a lower level with the other teams with the same situation. Does North Texas really need a shot at the top title? Western Michigan? Utah State? They don't have a chance now, and neither do 70 other teams. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-25-2007, 07:06 PM	#10 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	Are you really playing at any level if that level forbids those even that have perfect seasons from competing for a championship? I would actually just reduce the size by about 30%. 8 Conferences of 12 teams seems about right. 96 teams that would, if winning, compete for a title. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

11-17-2007, 09:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,162	No, it is not possible for Hawaii to be in the Northwest.

11-21-2007, 10:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,162	A tourney in which a third of the teams can't participate does not produce a true champion. Notre Dame would be much smarter to join the Big 10 due to the higher profile that conference has in football. Unless they get greedy and want a title game there is no reason for the Pac 10 to expand. There isn't a team that would give it much of a boost in football or basketball.

11-25-2007, 02:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,162	So you'd just ban 50 teams in Division I-A from ever becoming national champion?

11-25-2007, 06:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,162	So would you kick out half the teams that play Division I basketball while you're at it?

12-03-2007, 02:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
billybob New Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1	Hawaii and BSU - Not happening! Hawaii and BSU in Pac 10? I don't see it. The best choice for PAC 10 expansion is BYU-UTAH. It makes the best sense financially (BYU and UTAH have bigger markets - bigger stadiums and more importantly bring in more fans to both home and away games-particularly when they play Pac 10 teams) Academically (both BYU and UTAH are superior) have much better overall sporting programs (Hawaii is having a good year in football this year, and BSU was had a good run in football, but that is it - no other sports) they have the rivalry the Pac 10 loves, plus a bunch more reasons that if they would expand BYU/Utah would be the best choice. Sorry BSU! But.... I don't see the PAC 10 expanding any time soon, so don't hold your breath.