Roger Clemens

Zen653 · 11-30-2006, 11:12 AM

I would be brimming with joy if we somehow signed Clemens. I never stopped liking him. He remains one of my all-time favorites. I just love his bulldog mentality on the mound. I love that devastating fastball that still flummoxes opposing hitters as though it were 1984.

The Rocket's just an incredible player. It would be a dream come true to watch him finish his career in a Red Sox uniform. Championship aside, nothing could please me more than to watch #21 trot back out onto the Fenway mound. I get goosebumps just thinking about the response he'd receive on Opening Day, and every time he toes the rubber. I wouldn't even care if he struggled. I just want to see him back here. I want to see him finish in the city he never should have left.

Sentimental reasons aside, I think a Clemens acquisition would be an outstanding baseball move. We'd only need to sign him for one year and the front office favors short-term contracts. He'd be a good tutor for Jon Papelbon, Josh Beckett and other young pitchers on the team. (Schilling credits Clemens with turning his career around.) And most importantly of all, Clemens would potentially give us 5 aces in our starting rotation.

How many teams can boast a rotation of 5 No. 1 starters? Or a combination of 5 No. 1 and 2's? We'd win 100 games. Wakefield could move to the bullpen where he's probably more useful anyway (because of the change in speed in facing fastballs for 6 innings, then a knuckleball for 1-2 innings, followed by more fastballs in the 9th) and come playoff time, we could move one of our five starters into the bullpen (maybe Papelbon reprises the closer's role in October and Jon Lester becomes our lefthanded setup-man.) The pitching depth would be outstanding, and as we all know, pitching wins championships.

Best of all, this really isn't a pipedream. We know from reports last year that Clemens decided between the Red Sox and Astros. He gave coming here some serious thought. If he sees that we have a great starting rotation here, if he sees that we have a fearsome 3-4-5 of Ortiz-Ramirez-Drew, I think we'd win out this time. We could still let him go home inbetween starts. While I normally don't support that kind of preferential treatment, I think Clemens has earned that privilege and probably would not abuse of it. I've never heard anyone criticize him as a bad teammate.

While a Clemens signing would probably cost around $21 million for 1 year (that's what the Red Sox offered him last season), and while this would likely put the Red Sox over the luxury tax threshold, I still think they should do it. A bunch of players come off the books next year, so the Red Sox could field a $150 million payroll this year and then go down to around $110-$120 million next year. One year at $150 million plus one year at $110 million averages out the same as two years at $130 million.

AutomatedTeller · 11-30-2006, 11:34 AM

I would love having Roger here. Love it. And yes - the Sox, with a rotation of Clemens, Schilling, beckett, Matuzaksa (I guess I have to learn how to spell that eventually) and Papelbon, with a lineup of Crisp, Youkilis, Ortiz, Manny, Drew, Lowell, Tek!, Lugo and Pedroia would kick ass unless the bullpen was just totally terrible. Heck, if Beckett figured it out and Mats and Papelbon were near to what was expected, 100 games might be low end!!

Dunno that I see it happening, and not for financial reasons. I don't think Roger will come back to Fenway (though, how cool would it be for his kids to be in Fenway for the home opener when Roger takes the mound? The fans wouldn't sit down until the bottom of the 1st.)

EnderSwarm · 11-30-2006, 05:53 PM

Now that Houston signed Carlos Lee, I wonder if that's enough 'sway' to keep Clemens with the Astros if he does decide to pitch another year? Obviously he'll always consider pitching for Houston, but will Lee be enough to keep him there?

He would be awesome to have though, if we could somehow get him. Still a great pitcher (even at his old age), and you just know it would tick off the Yankees.

Zen653 · 12-06-2006, 11:28 PM

This makes me nervous:

Quote:

...agent Randy Hendricks did not elaborate on Pettitte's thought process. But he did confirm that Pettitte, 34, would not retire. "Andy has decided to play," Hendricks wrote in an e-mail message.

Clemens, 44, may retire, but he has been teammates with Pettitte for eight years, and there is a strong chance he will follow Pettitte wherever he goes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/sp...=1&oref=slogin

Spaceman · 12-09-2006, 12:08 PM

I really hope that Roger doesn't go to the Yankees. But as of right now it looks like he might. I really hope he doesn't do that to Red Sox fans again. Hopfully, he will go for the story book ending and finish where he started.

AutomatedTeller · 12-09-2006, 03:13 PM

Clemens and Pettitte in NY would make me nervous. A rotation of RJ, Mussina, Wang, Clemens and Pettitte might well be the best ever. Course, they might all get old (except Wang, of course) all at once.

Zen653 · 12-09-2006, 04:29 PM

This is exactly why I would not be bothered by Matsuzaka returning to Japan. It means we'd focus all our energies on getting Clemens, and in doing so, keeping both him and Matsuzaka out of New York. Matsuzaka is a question mark, Clemens is the real deal. Matsuzaka will cost $20+ million per year for several seasons (when factoring in the posting fee), Clemens will cost $20+ million for just one season. I hope the front office adopts this line of reasoning and tells Matsuzaka to either take what the Red Sox offer him, or hightail it back to Japan. Only the combined factors of a big salary, the lure of the storybook ending, and preferential treatment (going home between starts) will possibly outweigh Clemens' manlove for Andy Pettite.

Let's also hope that the Yankees sign Igawa and maybe acquire yet another starting pitcher not named Clemens. The more starters they have, the less likely they go after Clemens. With Pettite off the Houston payroll, I also wonder whether the Astros will again offer Clemens $20+ million.

cjelephant · 12-09-2006, 04:50 PM

Why would clemens follow Petitte?

Since when does Roger care about anyone else?

3rd Handler · 12-09-2006, 05:48 PM

Andy Petitte was a big reason why the Rocket even came back in the first place. They've pitched together for 7-8 years and just have that kind of a relationship.

cjelephant · 12-09-2006, 09:31 PM

I love how Pettite says the reason he signed with the Yankees is because they "tried harder"

I can't stand these modern athletes.

"It wasn't about money" always means it was about money!

3rd Handler · 12-13-2006, 12:32 PM

On WEEI this morning, one of the show hosts said the Red Sox told Scott Boras it's no big deal if D-Mat wouldn't sign because they're close on an offer out to the Rocket. As reported on the radio show, a Sox official said to Boras, "If you don't believe us, here's Roger's home number. Give him a call." Could be a ploy by the Sox brass to get a deal done but interesting nonetheless.

Zen653 · 12-14-2006, 04:51 AM

A writer with the Houston Chronicle reports that the Red Sox already submitted an offer to Clemens for 2/3 of the season. I hope that offer is still on the table even after the Matsuzaka signing. Clemens is truly the final piece to what ought to be a championship team. Clemens in the rotation means Papelbon can go back to closing games. With Gagne in Texas, Dotel in Kansas City, and no other half-decent closers on the market, I have to think that the Red Sox are leaning in this direction. In the past, we had heard John Henry say that Clemens would be a special case in terms of the luxury tax implications. With about $40 million coming off the books for 2008, I think the Red Sox can afford to exceed the luxury tax (as they've also done in 2005 and 2006.)

AutomatedTeller · 12-14-2006, 10:17 PM

I think you are right. Clemens being here would be amazing. There is no doubt that the Sox would blow the budget to bring him back for 1 year, where he should have never left.

3rd Handler · 12-15-2006, 07:16 AM

You can really sign anyone for 1 year regardless of the salary, in Boston anyway. This team rakes in so much from ticket sales, endorsements, and just being the Boston Red Sox that they could give Clemens any kind of deal and make it work for one year.

Spaceman · 12-15-2006, 09:42 AM

I could put up with the ticket prices going up if we could somehow get Clemens. We would have a power house of a pitching rotation.

11-30-2006, 11:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,194	Roger Clemens I would be brimming with joy if we somehow signed Clemens. I never stopped liking him. He remains one of my all-time favorites. I just love his bulldog mentality on the mound. I love that devastating fastball that still flummoxes opposing hitters as though it were 1984. The Rocket's just an incredible player. It would be a dream come true to watch him finish his career in a Red Sox uniform. Championship aside, nothing could please me more than to watch #21 trot back out onto the Fenway mound. I get goosebumps just thinking about the response he'd receive on Opening Day, and every time he toes the rubber. I wouldn't even care if he struggled. I just want to see him back here. I want to see him finish in the city he never should have left. Sentimental reasons aside, I think a Clemens acquisition would be an outstanding baseball move. We'd only need to sign him for one year and the front office favors short-term contracts. He'd be a good tutor for Jon Papelbon, Josh Beckett and other young pitchers on the team. (Schilling credits Clemens with turning his career around.) And most importantly of all, Clemens would potentially give us 5 aces in our starting rotation. How many teams can boast a rotation of 5 No. 1 starters? Or a combination of 5 No. 1 and 2's? We'd win 100 games. Wakefield could move to the bullpen where he's probably more useful anyway (because of the change in speed in facing fastballs for 6 innings, then a knuckleball for 1-2 innings, followed by more fastballs in the 9th) and come playoff time, we could move one of our five starters into the bullpen (maybe Papelbon reprises the closer's role in October and Jon Lester becomes our lefthanded setup-man.) The pitching depth would be outstanding, and as we all know, pitching wins championships. Best of all, this really isn't a pipedream. We know from reports last year that Clemens decided between the Red Sox and Astros. He gave coming here some serious thought. If he sees that we have a great starting rotation here, if he sees that we have a fearsome 3-4-5 of Ortiz-Ramirez-Drew, I think we'd win out this time. We could still let him go home inbetween starts. While I normally don't support that kind of preferential treatment, I think Clemens has earned that privilege and probably would not abuse of it. I've never heard anyone criticize him as a bad teammate. While a Clemens signing would probably cost around $21 million for 1 year (that's what the Red Sox offered him last season), and while this would likely put the Red Sox over the luxury tax threshold, I still think they should do it. A bunch of players come off the books next year, so the Red Sox could field a $150 million payroll this year and then go down to around $110-$120 million next year. One year at $150 million plus one year at $110 million averages out the same as two years at $130 million.

12-09-2006, 04:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,194	This is exactly why I would not be bothered by Matsuzaka returning to Japan. It means we'd focus all our energies on getting Clemens, and in doing so, keeping both him and Matsuzaka out of New York. Matsuzaka is a question mark, Clemens is the real deal. Matsuzaka will cost $20+ million per year for several seasons (when factoring in the posting fee), Clemens will cost $20+ million for just one season. I hope the front office adopts this line of reasoning and tells Matsuzaka to either take what the Red Sox offer him, or hightail it back to Japan. Only the combined factors of a big salary, the lure of the storybook ending, and preferential treatment (going home between starts) will possibly outweigh Clemens' manlove for Andy Pettite. Let's also hope that the Yankees sign Igawa and maybe acquire yet another starting pitcher not named Clemens. The more starters they have, the less likely they go after Clemens. With Pettite off the Houston payroll, I also wonder whether the Astros will again offer Clemens $20+ million. Last edited by Zen653; 12-09-2006 at 04:32 PM.

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11-30-2006, 11:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	I would love having Roger here. Love it. And yes - the Sox, with a rotation of Clemens, Schilling, beckett, Matuzaksa (I guess I have to learn how to spell that eventually) and Papelbon, with a lineup of Crisp, Youkilis, Ortiz, Manny, Drew, Lowell, Tek!, Lugo and Pedroia would kick ass unless the bullpen was just totally terrible. Heck, if Beckett figured it out and Mats and Papelbon were near to what was expected, 100 games might be low end!! Dunno that I see it happening, and not for financial reasons. I don't think Roger will come back to Fenway (though, how cool would it be for his kids to be in Fenway for the home opener when Roger takes the mound? The fans wouldn't sit down until the bottom of the 1st.)

11-30-2006, 05:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
EnderSwarm Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15	Now that Houston signed Carlos Lee, I wonder if that's enough 'sway' to keep Clemens with the Astros if he does decide to pitch another year? Obviously he'll always consider pitching for Houston, but will Lee be enough to keep him there? He would be awesome to have though, if we could somehow get him. Still a great pitcher (even at his old age), and you just know it would tick off the Yankees.

12-09-2006, 12:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
Spaceman Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 11	I really hope that Roger doesn't go to the Yankees. But as of right now it looks like he might. I really hope he doesn't do that to Red Sox fans again. Hopfully, he will go for the story book ending and finish where he started.

12-09-2006, 03:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	Clemens and Pettitte in NY would make me nervous. A rotation of RJ, Mussina, Wang, Clemens and Pettitte might well be the best ever. Course, they might all get old (except Wang, of course) all at once.

12-09-2006, 04:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
cjelephant Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 47	Why would clemens follow Petitte? Since when does Roger care about anyone else?

12-09-2006, 05:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
3rd Handler Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 27	Andy Petitte was a big reason why the Rocket even came back in the first place. They've pitched together for 7-8 years and just have that kind of a relationship.

12-09-2006, 09:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
cjelephant Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 47	I love how Pettite says the reason he signed with the Yankees is because they "tried harder" I can't stand these modern athletes. "It wasn't about money" always means it was about money!

12-13-2006, 12:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
3rd Handler Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 27	On WEEI this morning, one of the show hosts said the Red Sox told Scott Boras it's no big deal if D-Mat wouldn't sign because they're close on an offer out to the Rocket. As reported on the radio show, a Sox official said to Boras, "If you don't believe us, here's Roger's home number. Give him a call." Could be a ploy by the Sox brass to get a deal done but interesting nonetheless.

12-14-2006, 04:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,194	A writer with the Houston Chronicle reports that the Red Sox already submitted an offer to Clemens for 2/3 of the season. I hope that offer is still on the table even after the Matsuzaka signing. Clemens is truly the final piece to what ought to be a championship team. Clemens in the rotation means Papelbon can go back to closing games. With Gagne in Texas, Dotel in Kansas City, and no other half-decent closers on the market, I have to think that the Red Sox are leaning in this direction. In the past, we had heard John Henry say that Clemens would be a special case in terms of the luxury tax implications. With about $40 million coming off the books for 2008, I think the Red Sox can afford to exceed the luxury tax (as they've also done in 2005 and 2006.)

12-14-2006, 10:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	I think you are right. Clemens being here would be amazing. There is no doubt that the Sox would blow the budget to bring him back for 1 year, where he should have never left.

12-15-2006, 07:16 AM	#14 (permalink)
3rd Handler Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 27	You can really sign anyone for 1 year regardless of the salary, in Boston anyway. This team rakes in so much from ticket sales, endorsements, and just being the Boston Red Sox that they could give Clemens any kind of deal and make it work for one year.

12-15-2006, 09:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
Spaceman Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 11	I could put up with the ticket prices going up if we could somehow get Clemens. We would have a power house of a pitching rotation.