Trade Manny?

[rubberball]

Should we trade Manny? I believe it says we are giving up 2007 if we do. Replace Manny, Agon and Trot with Drew, Lugo and Pena? we would need to get a couple good minor leaguers to make that eaiser to handle.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677627

[WhosyourPapi????]

I gonna try and be reasonable here. Dont trade Manny, you can't get equal value for him.

[reject]

Atleast it's only Buster Onley reporting this, he's been reporting that the Sox we're going to trade Manny since the stone ages..

[AutomatedTeller]

I don't really want Manny gone - he's hard to replace in the lineup, and if he's not here, the Boston sportswriters will just find someone else to turn into their punching bag. I am assuming it will be Beckett.

On EEI, they had someone on (Ken someone), who was speculating that in order to approve a trade, Manny might insist on not only his options being picked up, but an extension! I don;t know who the guy was (I missed most of the interview), but wouldn't that be just normal for Manny?

[Zen653]

I think this is a classic Epstein mistake. Refuse to pay $20 million for a top caliber player because the salary is supposedly too onerous, and then replace that player with someone who is injury-prone, emotionally soft (shades of Renteria) and only 60% as good. All for what? A relatively paltry financial savings of less than $5 million? We've seen this before with Martinez ($13 million) being replaced by Clement ($9 million). Or Myers ($1.5 million) being replaced by Lopez.

In a market where Carlos Lee is worth $16.5 million per year, Manny Ramirez looks pretty darn good at $20 million per year. I'm really liking Manny's contract right now. Especially the two option years. We could keep him for 2 more years, 3 more years, or 4 more years. It's our decision. That's some excellent contractual flexibility. And given the fact that Ramirez always produces, has never had a bad year in his entire career, and doesn't distract to the extent of costing us wins (we did, after all, win a World Series with him), I'm inclined to just hang onto him. Ortiz-Ramirez is a lethal 3-4 combo that strikes fear into the hearts of our opponents. Why break that up when we know we can't adequately replace Ramirez's production? No relief pitcher is worth Manny Ramirez, yet we keep hearing about deals centered around Scot Shields or Scott Linebrink. For once, it seems that we're vastly undervaluing our players. Ramirez is going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. I really don't want a repeat of the Jeff Bagwell/Larry Andersen fiasco. Especially not when this time we know that the guy we're giving up is well on his way to Cooperstown.

I don't have anything against J.D Drew personally. I haven't watched him play. I know he seems like a good player by various statistical measures. But I also know that common sense needs to enter into these discussions sometimes. You know how Bill Simmons suggests that every team have a VP of Common Sense? The Red Sox need that too. I don't care if Drew has great peripheral stats, I care about winning baseball games. This isn't fantasy baseball where you get bonus points for drawing walks. Common sense tells us that a team needs a great 3-4 punch to make it deep into October. Common sense also tells us that you need at least two aces. While we seem to be heading in the right direction on the pitching side, we're clearly heading in the wrong direction on the hitting side. Our batting already struggled last year, and that was with Ramirez and Ortiz in the lineup. Imagine it without Ramirez. Ortiz will be given the Bonds treatment and Drew will morph into Mark Bellhorn. Just standing there as he takes strike 3.

If we hold onto Ramirez, then I like the J.D Drew signing. As a No. 5 hitter, and as added protection for Ramirez, he looks pretty good. But if we're expecting Drew to replace Ramirez, then I absolutely hate this deal. You can't put that kind of pressure on a nonchalant player who has no business batting cleanup.

I'd like to see the Red Sox keep Ramirez, sign Drew as the No. 5 hitter, and save money on the middle infield positions. Let Pedroia play 2B every day, let Cora play shortstop every day, and use the recently-signed Joe McEwing as the utility player. Cora won't be any worse than Gonzalez offensively, and Pedroia might turn out to be 70-80% of Mark Loretta. That's more than adequate if you have a 3-4-5 of Ortiz-Ramirez-Drew, and some expected improvement from Crisp and Varitek. If there's still money leftover after all of that, then spend it on Roger Clemens and create the uber-rotation of Clemens, Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka and Papelbon. Otherwise stand pat and field a lineup of: CF Crisp, 1B Youkilis, DH Ortiz, LF Ramirez, RF Drew, 3B Lowell, C Varitek, 2B Pedroia, SS Cora. I'm more concerned about the middle of the order than I am about the 8-9 guys. You can always make a trade in July if Pedroia and Cora aren't getting the job done. Someone like Loretta would probably even be available, particularly if he signs with a non-contender.

Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot for 2007. We should go for it all this season while we still have Schilling for one final year, and possibly Clemens. (According to SI, the Houston front office thinks Clemens will pitch "elsewhere" in 2007.) Let's win a championship now, and then usher in a new era in 2008 if Epstein wants to blow things up so badly. Ramirez gives us our best chance to win in 2007, and that's why we need to resist these foolish temptations to trade him for anything less than a comparable talent - Guerrero (which would never happen), or at the very least Tejada. I just don't get why so many Red Sox fans seem excited by the prospect of trading Ramirez in an off-season where we're supposedly gunning for a World Series.

[Papi4President]

Trade Manny = (not wait till next year) but Wait until next decade!

[RMF]

You don't trade Manny because you can't get = value. However, if you're going to trade Manny you send him to the Dodgers. Colletti is probably one of the worst GM's around. He's operating in an environment which is clearly beyond his grasp.

[RMF]

I really want to see what Manny, Drew and Ortiz do in the same lineup. I mean, that's easily the best 1-2-3 punch in the game. It's not really close.

[AutomatedTeller]

I dunno about that. ARod/Giambi/Abreu is pretty good, as is Dye/Thome/Konerko. The Mets have a pretty good 3-4-5 in Wright/Delgado/Beltran, too.

[rubberball]

Sure they arent planning to bat 3-4-5 but what about Sorinano, Lee, and Rameriez on the cubs?

Note: I think I spelt all three names wrong

[AutomatedTeller]

you got Lee right

[Zen653]

Courtesy of syoo8 from SOSH, Manny Ramirez shockingly agreed to an interview with ESPN. Here's an unofficial transcript:

MR: Well let me tell you that honestly when I became a free agent, I was a little confused about coming here (Boston), but there is a God up there and the best thing that could have happened to Manny Ramirez was coming to Boston. I became a better baseball player, a better hitter, and better outfielder. The fans are the best of the world. We could be in Detroit, Tampa and we always get their support. In addition, that is a very important thing, because when you are in another stadium and you can get that type of support from your fans, that is incredible.

Q: Next year will be the last year of your contract with Boston. Are you coming back or are you going to test free agency?

MR: I would like to finish my career here in Boston, but you know, Carlos, this is a business and let's see what they have and leave it in God's hands. If God wants me to come back I will be back. If not, amen. You know that baseball will always be here and baseball players wil come and go but let's see what happens.

Q: (About this year vs. 2004)

MR: Well let me tell you that this team is better now. We have better pitching, we have a better bullpen, and you know that when you get into the playoffs pitching is key, and it gives us a chance with the offense that we have. There's going to be problems.

----------

It's nice to see Ramirez showing some love for Boston and expressing a preference to retire with the Red Sox. Unfortunately, the front office has desperately tried to move Ramirez for the last 5 years. Now that there's only one more guaranteed year left on his deal, I don't expect the team to extend his contract, or exercise the $20 million team options. The fan in me wants to see Ramirez stay in Boston for the rest of his career (or at least through 2010 so that he's eligible to have his number retired) but I also understand the business side, and realize that Ramirez may no longer be worth $20 million. In 2007, he's been no better than what one would project for J.D Drew.

Would Manny agree to restructure his deal in a way that would reduce his salary for 2008 in return for guaranteed contract years (at $16 million) in 2009 and 2010? I think that would be doable. Would the Red Sox be interested in that type of deal? Again, I don't think so. I'm convinced that the Red Sox would rather blow money away on another J.D Drew before re-upping Ramirez. Supposedly he's a poor defensive outfielder. That's not going to get any better in 2009 and 2010 when he'll be in his late 30s. Plus there's the finicky attitude to deal with, the offensive decline this year, and the questionable integrity.

That said, I'd still sign Ramirez for baseball reasons, as well as sentimental legacy-related ones. Even the 2007 version of Manny Ramirez is a lot better than what the Red Sox will be able to find on the open market.

2008 OF Free Agents:

Endy Chavez
Jim Edmonds
Ken Griffey Jr.
Mark Kotsay
Luis Matos
Dustan Mohr
Kerry Robinson
Garret Anderson
Larry Bigbie
Emil Brown
Pat Burrell
Carl Crawford
Raul Ibanez
Jason Michaels
Craig Monroe
David Newhan
Jay Payton
Timo Perez
Scott Podsednik
Rocco Baldelli
Casey Blake
Juan Encarnacion
Brian Giles
Vladimir Guerrero
Jacques Jones
Kevin Mench
Wily Mo Pena
Juan Rivera

Available big bats at 1B:

Mark Teixeira
Jason Giambi

Available big bats at 3B:

Troy Glaus
Hank Blalock

Other than Crawford or Guerrero, there's really no one who would approximate Ramirez's value in the outfield. And I have to think that the Angels would likely extend Guerrero's contract, while there would be all kinds of competition for Crawford - if the Devil Rays even let him reach free agency (it would be disastrous for that franchise to lose their one offensive star.) The Red Sox could pursue someone like Teixeira for 1B, depending on what happens this off-season with Youkilis/Lowell/A-Rod. They could go for Blalock or Glaus. I doubt they'd express interest in Giambi. If, however, the team is set at 1B and 3B going into 2009, then you'd have to replace Manny's offense with an outfielder.

I don't think Ramirez at $20 million a year would be a bargain, but he wouldn't be too overpriced either, especially when J.D Drew is worth $14 million. And the good thing about the two option years is that they're essentially independent one year contracts. The Red Sox like to go short-term with players because it increases overall flexibility. They wouldn't be able to do that with Guerrero and Crawford (or one of the aforementioned corner infielders) who would each command 4-7 year deals. Staying with Ramirez is probably the most prudent course of action unless the Red Sox add someone like A-Rod in 2008.

I hope the team doesn't allow Ramirez's mercurial personality, and the on again/off again mutual animosities, to get in the way of a sound baseball decision.

[AutomatedTeller]

Let's not completely re-write history here.

Manny has, on several occassions, asked for a trade.

The Sox even went so far as to put him on waivers - all another team had to do was take on the contract - and no one wanted him.

I don't think Manny is going anywhere, though I don't think the Sox will pick up options - I think they'll renegotiate.

[Zen653]

Yes, Ramirez has asked for trades, but the front office instigated him. Did Ramirez demand a trade prior to the Red Sox embarrassing him by placing him on irrevocable waivers after '03? Did Ramirez demand a trade after 2004 when the Red Sox tried to move him a day after the World Series parade?

[AutomatedTeller]

yes.

Manny had been asking for a trade that winter. Sox couldnt' deal him, that's why he was put on waivers, to show him that he couldn't be dealt.

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