Sox O - Page 2

captainkairos · 06-12-2007, 12:55 PM

All Coco needs to do is put up 'decent' stats.....I'd take .270 with a .350 obp. That is about what Loften is doing. I'd be psyched with a .350 OBP from Coco, disruptive as he is on the basepaths.
Lugo just makes me wish we still had Cabrera.

AutomatedTeller · 06-12-2007, 04:34 PM

Well, I'm not sure that the Sox would be better off with Damon right now than Coco. Caveman is now the Yankees DH with Melky Cabrera in CF - who recently misplayed a ball into an inside the park HR. Again.

Zen653 · 06-13-2007, 12:33 AM

I'd really like to see Ichiro as our new CF next year. I think there's a good chance of it happening too. We clearly could use an upgrade at that position, we need a stronger leadoff hitter, and there was lots of talk during spring training that he likes the northeast and wants to be on the same team as Matsuzaka.

If Ichiro signs elsewhere, we have a better chance than anyone of landing Torii Hunter. He's made it clear that Boston is his first choice if he can't remain in Minnesota. He and David Ortiz are close friends. Hunter would be a solid No. 5 or 6 hitter with a great glove.

Signing either one of these guys would make Ellsbury available as potential trade bait. I wouldn't mind packaging him along with Bowden, Hansen, Moss and Wily Mo for an impact bat (Miguel Cabrera? Miguel Tejada? Mark Texieira?) or frontline starting pitcher (CC Sabathia?)

AutomatedTeller · 06-13-2007, 10:18 AM

Ichiro is a fine player, and players with speed tend to age well... but he is 33.

Hunter is 31 and I'm not why he would be a better #5 hitter than Lowell or Drew.

I don't see the Sox trading Ellsbury, in any case. Pretty clearly, the Sox are dedicated to adding young talent to the team. Last year, Papelbon and Lester and Youkilis getting a full stint. This year, Pedroia and probably, later on in the season, Delcarmen will join the big club for good. Next year, Ellsbury and perhaps another pitcher. The Sox seem to be following more of the Braves model than the Yankees model. Of course, had the Sox been following the Yankees model, they would have traded Beckett and Hansen for someone like Glavine.

Zen653 · 06-13-2007, 03:56 PM

I didn't mean to say that Hunter would be a better No. 5 or 6 hitter than Drew or Lowell, just that he'd be solid in that part of the lineup. The real reason for acquiring him would be to upgrade the CF position. Hunter is not a super high OBA guy, so it wouldn't make sense to bat him in the leadoff spot. He does, however, have decent power numbers and he's every bit as good as Crisp defensively - if not better, because of his superior throwing arm.

If the Red Sox were to sign someone like Ichiro or Hunter, where would Ellsbury play? Drew is in RF for the next five years. Ichiro/Hunter would play in CF, forcing a Crisp trade. Manny is in LF through at least 2008, and hopefully beyond. Wily Mo is still in the mix. Brandon Moss is tearing it up at Pawtucket, with 11 homeruns and a .300+ batting average. David Murphy seems like a Trot Nixon-type player. The outfield picture would become extremely crowded if we signed Ichiro or Hunter.

The Red Sox have shown a willingness to move prospects, if they're part of a package for a more established young player approaching arbitration. So if Ellsbury, Hansen and Bowden could be moved for Miguel Cabrera, there's not a doubt in my mind that the Red Sox would pounce on it. You can always find a good outfielder in free agency (to wit, Ichiro and Hunter after '07), but it's much harder to find top third basemen or starting pitchers.

You also have to consider the window of opportunity for this team to win championships. With Ramirez nearing the end of his contract, Ortiz, Drew and Lowell all on the wrong side of 30, and Schilling getting up there in age, the team should do what it can to win the World Series in '07 and '08. The goal should not be to merely go on an Atlanta-like run of trips to the playoffs. The goal should be to win World Series championships. I'm perfectly okay with rebuilding again in '09, if it means titles in '07 and '08. Sometimes teams get too enamored with youth, the youth never develops as expected, and great veteran players get wasted. I think we saw that last year when far too many young pitchers were thrown into the mix, and a 54 HR season by David Ortiz went for naught.

AutomatedTeller · 06-13-2007, 04:25 PM

sorry - I had thought you meant you wanted Hunter to bat 5th

I agree that winning WS now is important.

But if you can win championships while getting younger, why not?

cjelephant · 06-14-2007, 10:15 PM

Does Pawtucket have a SS? Can he bat more than .200?

06-12-2007, 12:55 PM	#16 (permalink)
captainkairos Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 17	All Coco needs to do is put up 'decent' stats.....I'd take .270 with a .350 obp. That is about what Loften is doing. I'd be psyched with a .350 OBP from Coco, disruptive as he is on the basepaths. Lugo just makes me wish we still had Cabrera.

06-12-2007, 04:34 PM	#17 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 545	Well, I'm not sure that the Sox would be better off with Damon right now than Coco. Caveman is now the Yankees DH with Melky Cabrera in CF - who recently misplayed a ball into an inside the park HR. Again.

06-13-2007, 12:33 AM	#18 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,902	I'd really like to see Ichiro as our new CF next year. I think there's a good chance of it happening too. We clearly could use an upgrade at that position, we need a stronger leadoff hitter, and there was lots of talk during spring training that he likes the northeast and wants to be on the same team as Matsuzaka. If Ichiro signs elsewhere, we have a better chance than anyone of landing Torii Hunter. He's made it clear that Boston is his first choice if he can't remain in Minnesota. He and David Ortiz are close friends. Hunter would be a solid No. 5 or 6 hitter with a great glove. Signing either one of these guys would make Ellsbury available as potential trade bait. I wouldn't mind packaging him along with Bowden, Hansen, Moss and Wily Mo for an impact bat (Miguel Cabrera? Miguel Tejada? Mark Texieira?) or frontline starting pitcher (CC Sabathia?)

06-13-2007, 10:18 AM	#19 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 545	Ichiro is a fine player, and players with speed tend to age well... but he is 33. Hunter is 31 and I'm not why he would be a better #5 hitter than Lowell or Drew. I don't see the Sox trading Ellsbury, in any case. Pretty clearly, the Sox are dedicated to adding young talent to the team. Last year, Papelbon and Lester and Youkilis getting a full stint. This year, Pedroia and probably, later on in the season, Delcarmen will join the big club for good. Next year, Ellsbury and perhaps another pitcher. The Sox seem to be following more of the Braves model than the Yankees model. Of course, had the Sox been following the Yankees model, they would have traded Beckett and Hansen for someone like Glavine.

06-13-2007, 03:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,902	I didn't mean to say that Hunter would be a better No. 5 or 6 hitter than Drew or Lowell, just that he'd be solid in that part of the lineup. The real reason for acquiring him would be to upgrade the CF position. Hunter is not a super high OBA guy, so it wouldn't make sense to bat him in the leadoff spot. He does, however, have decent power numbers and he's every bit as good as Crisp defensively - if not better, because of his superior throwing arm. If the Red Sox were to sign someone like Ichiro or Hunter, where would Ellsbury play? Drew is in RF for the next five years. Ichiro/Hunter would play in CF, forcing a Crisp trade. Manny is in LF through at least 2008, and hopefully beyond. Wily Mo is still in the mix. Brandon Moss is tearing it up at Pawtucket, with 11 homeruns and a .300+ batting average. David Murphy seems like a Trot Nixon-type player. The outfield picture would become extremely crowded if we signed Ichiro or Hunter. The Red Sox have shown a willingness to move prospects, if they're part of a package for a more established young player approaching arbitration. So if Ellsbury, Hansen and Bowden could be moved for Miguel Cabrera, there's not a doubt in my mind that the Red Sox would pounce on it. You can always find a good outfielder in free agency (to wit, Ichiro and Hunter after '07), but it's much harder to find top third basemen or starting pitchers. You also have to consider the window of opportunity for this team to win championships. With Ramirez nearing the end of his contract, Ortiz, Drew and Lowell all on the wrong side of 30, and Schilling getting up there in age, the team should do what it can to win the World Series in '07 and '08. The goal should not be to merely go on an Atlanta-like run of trips to the playoffs. The goal should be to win World Series championships. I'm perfectly okay with rebuilding again in '09, if it means titles in '07 and '08. Sometimes teams get too enamored with youth, the youth never develops as expected, and great veteran players get wasted. I think we saw that last year when far too many young pitchers were thrown into the mix, and a 54 HR season by David Ortiz went for naught.

06-13-2007, 04:25 PM	#21 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 545	sorry - I had thought you meant you wanted Hunter to bat 5th I agree that winning WS now is important. But if you can win championships while getting younger, why not?

06-14-2007, 10:15 PM	#22 (permalink)
cjelephant Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 47	Does Pawtucket have a SS? Can he bat more than .200?