Center Field: Coco, Ellsbury, Wily Mo, Ichiro, Hunter?

Zen653 · 03-28-2007, 05:39 PM

I was listening to WEEI on the drive home and heard an interesting discussion about the future of the CF position. Apparently, the Red Sox are down on Coco Crisp and do not think that he'll contribute adequately to the team. They don't like his arm, they don't like his low on-base percentage, and now there are questions about his attitude. Last year, he largely received a free pass because of the injury to his finger. This year, many predict that the gloves will come off.

Crisp himself is probably feeling the pressure. He made some curious remarks to the Boston Globe, where he echoed part of Keith Foulke's sentiments about the Boston fan base. He said that he doesn't care about what the fans think of him, that he's just going to play his game and let the chips fall where they may. Some of the WEEI personalities speculate that this could mean he's too soft for Boston. It certainly doesn't help that he's having a poor spring training and complaining about a shoulder injury of dubious origins. He's also saying that the finger still bothers him.

One of the panelists on The Big Show suggested that the Red Sox might trade Crisp during the season if it becomes clear that he doesn't fit into the chemistry of this team. A specific suggestion was trading him to the Minnesota Twins. Now I had never thought about this before but I think I really like the idea. The Twins will be without Franciso Liriano for much of the year and they're in a division that goes four teams deep. If they're out of it by July, they'll probably look to move Torii Hunter who is a pending free agent. Crisp would be an attractive option as a replacement for Hunter because he's signed long-term (through 2010 or 2011 I believe) at a relatively low AAV ($5 million.) Given (a) Hunter's Gold Glove-caliber defense (perhaps the best CF in the American League), (b) his affection for David Ortiz and the city of Boston (he said the Red Sox would be his first choice if he can't stay in Minnesota), (c) his very solid offensive skills (good average, nice homerun totals), and (d) his looming free agent status (under contract only through the 2007 season), I would like to see the Red Sox trade Crisp for Hunter, regardless as to Crisp's performance. The Red Sox would be adding a championship-starved blue chip player for August, September and hopefully October, and they could then offer him arbitration at the end of season. If he accepted arbitration, the Red Sox would have one of the better outfielders in the league under contract for another year. More likely, he'd bolt for a team willing to give him a long-term contract in the Johnny Damon price range (if not higher.) If he left at the end of the year, it wouldn't be the end of the world. The Red Sox would pick up a compensatory draft pick and could then let Ellsbury and Wily Mo compete for the 2008 CF job, with Murphy and Moss as outside candidates. Alternatively, the Red Sox could bring in a different free agent - perhaps Ichiro Suzuki, who is said to be friendly with Matsuzaka and interested in Boston. Or maybe they could decide that Hunter is the right long-term fit.

The point is that the Red Sox would be in an excellent position if they traded Coco Crisp for Torii Hunter. The 2007 team would improve, and arguably the 2008 team as well. Plus who knows what kind of prospect we'd net for losing Hunter after 2-3 months. Ideally, I'd want to make this deal as soon as possible. I just don't think it happens if Minnesota stays in the race. The Twins might still harbor hopes of post-season glory. I expect them to deal Hunter only if they're 8+ games out of a playoff spot come July 31st. From Minnesota's perspective, Crisp and a second-tier pitching prospect (Pauley, Alvarez) would be a better haul than a mere draft pick. And we all know that the Twins have no intentions of retaining Hunter beyond 2007.

ingagi · 03-28-2007, 10:00 PM

I've had high hopes for the guy-in Cleveland, good defence, some power, speed too. Donno what happened, sure that injury just wouldn't go away, but things haven't worked out for him in Boston. If he's off to a slow start, sure I could buy the scenario of him being traded.

Drury77 · 03-29-2007, 05:15 AM

It's amazing how a guy like Manny who loafs on a regular basis, and hardly talks to the media is a Fan Fave, but someone like Foukle who was outstanding for us prior to his injury, and now Coco, all they have to do is make one comment and the entire Red Sox Nation turns on him.

It's also kinda funny how players who are great players elsewhere, come here and they suck, gotta be somthing in the Boston water

imaphru · 04-01-2007, 10:57 PM

I agree with Drury77 I just think you need to give this guy a chance I don't think the sox are going to trade Coco . Besides do you really think that Minn. is going to trade even up for Coco ???? please.

AutomatedTeller · 04-06-2007, 09:22 AM

well, Crisp *was* playing great before he got hurt last year - he was over .300 and made a great defensive catch early in the year.

The Foulke thing completely mystifies me. The man should be given near demigod status - heck, Bernie Carbo is a hero here for just 1 HR.

captainkairos · 04-16-2007, 08:07 AM

Crisp is off to a miserable start...just what he didn't need. With Willy Mo and a hot hitting Eric Hinske riding the pine, Coco's job may be in jeopardy.

Zen653 · 04-21-2007, 11:47 AM

Crisp is still hitting under .200 for the year but he's really picked it up in a big way the last couple games. He's been delivering some clutch extra base hits late in games and also showing tremendous effort defensively. I love how he went tumbling into the bullpen after A-Rod's second homer. He never gives up, and that's something I really respect about him. I also loved the passion he displayed after hitting the game-tying triple. He looked really pumped. I hope that he can use these two games as confidence-builders and turn into a regular contributor at the bottom of the lineup. I know that some people would like to see Crisp hit second in the order, but I prefer him in the 8th spot because his batting average and OBA are still below Youkilis', and I think Crisp can make better use of his baserunning skills hitting in front of the No. 9 hitter instead of Ortiz.

AutomatedTeller · 04-21-2007, 11:52 PM

He had another good game today...

cjelephant · 04-26-2007, 06:34 PM

Here's Coco before the game tonight (according to the Globe report): There's no update on Coco who, when I asked how he was doing, responded with, "Perfect."

I remarked that, likely, if he were perfect, he probably would be in the lineup today.

His response?

"I don't know. You tell me."

Drury77 · 04-26-2007, 06:40 PM

Certainly makes you wonder what in the blazes is going on here. Even Boston Media is puzzled by why Coco is still on the bench.

Wily Mo gives me ulcers when he is on the field, and his trade value is at about zero not sure we could even get a bag of rosin for him.

bedir than average · 04-26-2007, 06:43 PM

As a Mariner fan I would give Richie Sexson and Jose Guillen for Wily Mo and a bag of rosin, or just Coco.

cjelephant · 04-28-2007, 07:45 PM

I am predicting a complete melt down for Coco at some point this season. he is behaving in a bizarre fashion.

Drury77 · 04-28-2007, 07:48 PM

he is definitely showing a side of himself I'm not sure will go over well with the fans or the club

Zen653 · 04-28-2007, 11:41 PM

Drury, I actually like the fact that Crisp blew up at the umpire after what appeared to be a terrible call. It tells me that he cares about winning and wants to succeed. Most of our other guys seem apathetic. They accept failure and just walk back to the dugout like nothing has happened.

Crisp does seem to be behaving strangely with the media. Last year, he was a hit with the Globe writers, the Herald guys, and NESN. He had his own commercial, he was interviewed every night, he seemed affable. This season, I wonder if something is going on in his personal life because he just seems to have a totally different demeanor. He seems more isolated. He's exhibiting more passion on the field. He's providing very peculiar quotes to the media.

My guess is that he doesn't like it here too much but will keep his mouth shut and patiently wait for a trade. He doesn't strike me as a long-term Red Sox player. There's just something amiss about him.

AutomatedTeller · 04-29-2007, 09:59 AM

Well, he's taken a lot of heat in the media and from fans about his performance, which wasn't good, though it was injury related.

I dunno if it's his personal life or the boston media, which can be brutal. All he has to do is play like he did the week before he was injured for a month or so and everyone will love him again.

03-28-2007, 05:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,744	Center Field: Coco, Ellsbury, Wily Mo, Ichiro, Hunter? I was listening to WEEI on the drive home and heard an interesting discussion about the future of the CF position. Apparently, the Red Sox are down on Coco Crisp and do not think that he'll contribute adequately to the team. They don't like his arm, they don't like his low on-base percentage, and now there are questions about his attitude. Last year, he largely received a free pass because of the injury to his finger. This year, many predict that the gloves will come off. Crisp himself is probably feeling the pressure. He made some curious remarks to the Boston Globe, where he echoed part of Keith Foulke's sentiments about the Boston fan base. He said that he doesn't care about what the fans think of him, that he's just going to play his game and let the chips fall where they may. Some of the WEEI personalities speculate that this could mean he's too soft for Boston. It certainly doesn't help that he's having a poor spring training and complaining about a shoulder injury of dubious origins. He's also saying that the finger still bothers him. One of the panelists on The Big Show suggested that the Red Sox might trade Crisp during the season if it becomes clear that he doesn't fit into the chemistry of this team. A specific suggestion was trading him to the Minnesota Twins. Now I had never thought about this before but I think I really like the idea. The Twins will be without Franciso Liriano for much of the year and they're in a division that goes four teams deep. If they're out of it by July, they'll probably look to move Torii Hunter who is a pending free agent. Crisp would be an attractive option as a replacement for Hunter because he's signed long-term (through 2010 or 2011 I believe) at a relatively low AAV ($5 million.) Given (a) Hunter's Gold Glove-caliber defense (perhaps the best CF in the American League), (b) his affection for David Ortiz and the city of Boston (he said the Red Sox would be his first choice if he can't stay in Minnesota), (c) his very solid offensive skills (good average, nice homerun totals), and (d) his looming free agent status (under contract only through the 2007 season), I would like to see the Red Sox trade Crisp for Hunter, regardless as to Crisp's performance. The Red Sox would be adding a championship-starved blue chip player for August, September and hopefully October, and they could then offer him arbitration at the end of season. If he accepted arbitration, the Red Sox would have one of the better outfielders in the league under contract for another year. More likely, he'd bolt for a team willing to give him a long-term contract in the Johnny Damon price range (if not higher.) If he left at the end of the year, it wouldn't be the end of the world. The Red Sox would pick up a compensatory draft pick and could then let Ellsbury and Wily Mo compete for the 2008 CF job, with Murphy and Moss as outside candidates. Alternatively, the Red Sox could bring in a different free agent - perhaps Ichiro Suzuki, who is said to be friendly with Matsuzaka and interested in Boston. Or maybe they could decide that Hunter is the right long-term fit. The point is that the Red Sox would be in an excellent position if they traded Coco Crisp for Torii Hunter. The 2007 team would improve, and arguably the 2008 team as well. Plus who knows what kind of prospect we'd net for losing Hunter after 2-3 months. Ideally, I'd want to make this deal as soon as possible. I just don't think it happens if Minnesota stays in the race. The Twins might still harbor hopes of post-season glory. I expect them to deal Hunter only if they're 8+ games out of a playoff spot come July 31st. From Minnesota's perspective, Crisp and a second-tier pitching prospect (Pauley, Alvarez) would be a better haul than a mere draft pick. And we all know that the Twins have no intentions of retaining Hunter beyond 2007.

03-29-2007, 05:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
Drury77 Hockey Community Mod Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 891	It's amazing how a guy like Manny who loafs on a regular basis, and hardly talks to the media is a Fan Fave, but someone like Foukle who was outstanding for us prior to his injury, and now Coco, all they have to do is make one comment and the entire Red Sox Nation turns on him. It's also kinda funny how players who are great players elsewhere, come here and they suck, gotta be somthing in the Boston water __________________ Visit Traci's Card Place \| Stop by the Bruins Forum \| Stop by the Predators Forum

04-26-2007, 06:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
Drury77 Hockey Community Mod Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 891	Certainly makes you wonder what in the blazes is going on here. Even Boston Media is puzzled by why Coco is still on the bench. Wily Mo gives me ulcers when he is on the field, and his trade value is at about zero not sure we could even get a bag of rosin for him. __________________ Visit Traci's Card Place \| Stop by the Bruins Forum \| Stop by the Predators Forum Last edited by Drury77; 04-26-2007 at 06:51 PM.

04-26-2007, 06:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
bedir than average Administrator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Starbucks Posts: 8,256	As a Mariner fan I would give Richie Sexson and Jose Guillen for Wily Mo and a bag of rosin, or just Coco. __________________ US Men's National Team World Cup Qualifying \| Democracy in Sports Meets My First Campaign "You're only so sure you're right because they're so sure you're wrong." Orson Scott Card in Xenocide

04-28-2007, 07:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
Drury77 Hockey Community Mod Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 891	he is definitely showing a side of himself I'm not sure will go over well with the fans or the club __________________ Visit Traci's Card Place \| Stop by the Bruins Forum \| Stop by the Predators Forum

03-28-2007, 10:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
ingagi Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 30	I've had high hopes for the guy-in Cleveland, good defence, some power, speed too. Donno what happened, sure that injury just wouldn't go away, but things haven't worked out for him in Boston. If he's off to a slow start, sure I could buy the scenario of him being traded.

04-01-2007, 10:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
imaphru New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: mass. Posts: 1	I agree with Drury77 I just think you need to give this guy a chance I don't think the sox are going to trade Coco . Besides do you really think that Minn. is going to trade even up for Coco ???? please.

04-06-2007, 09:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	well, Crisp was playing great before he got hurt last year - he was over .300 and made a great defensive catch early in the year. The Foulke thing completely mystifies me. The man should be given near demigod status - heck, Bernie Carbo is a hero here for just 1 HR.

04-16-2007, 08:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
captainkairos Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 17	Crisp is off to a miserable start...just what he didn't need. With Willy Mo and a hot hitting Eric Hinske riding the pine, Coco's job may be in jeopardy.

04-21-2007, 11:47 AM	#7 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,744	Crisp is still hitting under .200 for the year but he's really picked it up in a big way the last couple games. He's been delivering some clutch extra base hits late in games and also showing tremendous effort defensively. I love how he went tumbling into the bullpen after A-Rod's second homer. He never gives up, and that's something I really respect about him. I also loved the passion he displayed after hitting the game-tying triple. He looked really pumped. I hope that he can use these two games as confidence-builders and turn into a regular contributor at the bottom of the lineup. I know that some people would like to see Crisp hit second in the order, but I prefer him in the 8th spot because his batting average and OBA are still below Youkilis', and I think Crisp can make better use of his baserunning skills hitting in front of the No. 9 hitter instead of Ortiz.

04-21-2007, 11:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	He had another good game today...

04-26-2007, 06:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
cjelephant Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 47	Here's Coco before the game tonight (according to the Globe report): There's no update on Coco who, when I asked how he was doing, responded with, "Perfect." I remarked that, likely, if he were perfect, he probably would be in the lineup today. His response? "I don't know. You tell me."

04-28-2007, 07:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
cjelephant Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 47	I am predicting a complete melt down for Coco at some point this season. he is behaving in a bizarre fashion.

04-28-2007, 11:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,744	Drury, I actually like the fact that Crisp blew up at the umpire after what appeared to be a terrible call. It tells me that he cares about winning and wants to succeed. Most of our other guys seem apathetic. They accept failure and just walk back to the dugout like nothing has happened. Crisp does seem to be behaving strangely with the media. Last year, he was a hit with the Globe writers, the Herald guys, and NESN. He had his own commercial, he was interviewed every night, he seemed affable. This season, I wonder if something is going on in his personal life because he just seems to have a totally different demeanor. He seems more isolated. He's exhibiting more passion on the field. He's providing very peculiar quotes to the media. My guess is that he doesn't like it here too much but will keep his mouth shut and patiently wait for a trade. He doesn't strike me as a long-term Red Sox player. There's just something amiss about him.

04-29-2007, 09:59 AM	#15 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	Well, he's taken a lot of heat in the media and from fans about his performance, which wasn't good, though it was injury related. I dunno if it's his personal life or the boston media, which can be brutal. All he has to do is play like he did the week before he was injured for a month or so and everyone will love him again.