Center Field: Coco, Ellsbury, Wily Mo, Ichiro, Hunter? - Page 2

Zen653 · 06-15-2007, 05:01 PM

With Dave Roberts back in town for the first time in an opposing uniform, I though it might be interesting to review his statistics as an everyday CF in 2005-2007, and compare them to Coco Crisp's numbers during that same block of time.

2005:
Dave Roberts (411 AB): .275 AVG, .356 OBA, 23 SB
Coco Crisp (594 AB): .300 AVG, .345 OBA, 15 SB

2006:
Dave Roberts (499 AB): .293 AVG, .360 OBA, 49 SB
Coco Crisp (413 AB): .264 AVG, .317 OBA, 22 SB

2007:
Dave Roberts (111 AB): .216 AVG, .293 OBA, 6 SB
Coco Crisp (220 AB): .223 AVG, .280 OBA, 12 SB

Roberts was clearly better in '06 and arguably better in '05. Both players are terrible this year.

The Red Sox probably would have been better off plugging Roberts in there for '05 and '06 on 1 year deals at short dollars. He was a World Series hero. People absolutely loved him here. And we would have been able to hold onto Marte and use him as a trading chip in some other deal. Instead, the Red Sox dealt a blue chip prospect in Marte and a very good young catcher in Kelly Shoppach for a bust with no bat or throwing arm. Then to make matters even worse, the Red Sox signed him to a contract extension through 2010.

Epstein made a ton of mistakes during the 2004 off-season and he hasn't regained his mojjo since. The only good move that's taken place since the '03off-season was the Beckett deal, and that one got done during Epstein's absence from the team.

Getting back to CF, though, a move needs to be made. I don't think Coco Crisp is ever going to get back to what he was in Cleveland...not that he was anything special back then anyway. I'd like to see the team audition Moss, Murphy and Ellsbury in CF and see if any of them can handle the job on a full-time basis. I don't really care if that leaves Crisp on the bench; we need to win ballgames and do what's best for the team.

AutomatedTeller · 06-15-2007, 05:42 PM

Well,the Sox had a CF in 2005. His name was Johnny Damon.

Roberts was traded because there was no place for him and he wanted to go.

I have to agree that the Sox need to do something about crisp - new batting coach, new CF, something.

captainkairos · 06-17-2007, 10:28 AM

I'd like to see the Sox acquire Loften and Roberts.

Zen653 · 06-21-2007, 08:39 PM

Kenny Lofton should be relatively easy to acquire. The Rangers aren't going anywhere this year, and he's not signed to a long-term deal. He played with Ramirez and Tavarez for several years in Cleveland, so he'd have some familiar faces in the clubhouse.

He's hitting .274 with a .360 OBA. He's 16 for 20 in stolen base attempts. My only concern would be his attitude. He was a malcontent in New York when he didn't get everyday playing time. If we obtained Lofton without trading Crisp, there would be a potential issue there.

Dave Roberts is signed through 2009, so I don't think he's a realistic option. But what about Ken Griffey Jr.? He's having a nice resurgence this year for the Reds. He's hitting .285 (.384 OBA) with 19 homers and 44 RBI. ESPN reported that he wants out of Cincinnati and would accept a deal to the Cubs. Why not give Cincinnati a call and see if Griffey would come to Boston? He's signed through 2008 at $12.5 million per year. At his advanced age, he'd be a downgrade defensively but a major asset offensively. I don't think it would take much to pick him up either, as long as we absorb a chunk of his contract. Crisp, Pauley and Hansen would probably get it done.

AutomatedTeller · 06-23-2007, 09:08 AM

It is looking like the Sox's patience with Coco is paying off - he is turning it around.

06-15-2007, 05:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,744	With Dave Roberts back in town for the first time in an opposing uniform, I though it might be interesting to review his statistics as an everyday CF in 2005-2007, and compare them to Coco Crisp's numbers during that same block of time. 2005: Dave Roberts (411 AB): .275 AVG, .356 OBA, 23 SB Coco Crisp (594 AB): .300 AVG, .345 OBA, 15 SB 2006: Dave Roberts (499 AB): .293 AVG, .360 OBA, 49 SB Coco Crisp (413 AB): .264 AVG, .317 OBA, 22 SB 2007: Dave Roberts (111 AB): .216 AVG, .293 OBA, 6 SB Coco Crisp (220 AB): .223 AVG, .280 OBA, 12 SB Roberts was clearly better in '06 and arguably better in '05. Both players are terrible this year. The Red Sox probably would have been better off plugging Roberts in there for '05 and '06 on 1 year deals at short dollars. He was a World Series hero. People absolutely loved him here. And we would have been able to hold onto Marte and use him as a trading chip in some other deal. Instead, the Red Sox dealt a blue chip prospect in Marte and a very good young catcher in Kelly Shoppach for a bust with no bat or throwing arm. Then to make matters even worse, the Red Sox signed him to a contract extension through 2010. Epstein made a ton of mistakes during the 2004 off-season and he hasn't regained his mojjo since. The only good move that's taken place since the '03off-season was the Beckett deal, and that one got done during Epstein's absence from the team. Getting back to CF, though, a move needs to be made. I don't think Coco Crisp is ever going to get back to what he was in Cleveland...not that he was anything special back then anyway. I'd like to see the team audition Moss, Murphy and Ellsbury in CF and see if any of them can handle the job on a full-time basis. I don't really care if that leaves Crisp on the bench; we need to win ballgames and do what's best for the team.

06-15-2007, 05:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	Well,the Sox had a CF in 2005. His name was Johnny Damon. Roberts was traded because there was no place for him and he wanted to go. I have to agree that the Sox need to do something about crisp - new batting coach, new CF, something.

06-17-2007, 10:28 AM	#18 (permalink)
captainkairos Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 17	I'd like to see the Sox acquire Loften and Roberts.

06-21-2007, 08:39 PM	#19 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,744	Kenny Lofton should be relatively easy to acquire. The Rangers aren't going anywhere this year, and he's not signed to a long-term deal. He played with Ramirez and Tavarez for several years in Cleveland, so he'd have some familiar faces in the clubhouse. He's hitting .274 with a .360 OBA. He's 16 for 20 in stolen base attempts. My only concern would be his attitude. He was a malcontent in New York when he didn't get everyday playing time. If we obtained Lofton without trading Crisp, there would be a potential issue there. Dave Roberts is signed through 2009, so I don't think he's a realistic option. But what about Ken Griffey Jr.? He's having a nice resurgence this year for the Reds. He's hitting .285 (.384 OBA) with 19 homers and 44 RBI. ESPN reported that he wants out of Cincinnati and would accept a deal to the Cubs. Why not give Cincinnati a call and see if Griffey would come to Boston? He's signed through 2008 at $12.5 million per year. At his advanced age, he'd be a downgrade defensively but a major asset offensively. I don't think it would take much to pick him up either, as long as we absorb a chunk of his contract. Crisp, Pauley and Hansen would probably get it done.

06-23-2007, 09:08 AM	#20 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	It is looking like the Sox's patience with Coco is paying off - he is turning it around.