Sox Bullpen

AutomatedTeller · 11-24-2006, 12:52 AM

Right now, the Sox pen looks like:

Timlin
Tavarez
Delcarmen
Hansen
Lopez (LHP)

Obviously, this isn't adequate. Who's the closer going to be? Gagne? Lidge? Who are the other setup men? Will this be even adequate?

The rotation looks good, with Schilling, Beckett, Matz papelbon and Wakefield (assuming they do sign matz), but a bad pen will frustrate the starters.

EnderSwarm · 11-24-2006, 01:46 AM

The bullpen is definitely going to be our sore spot (again) this season unless our youngsters get better in a hurry. It almost hurts to say it, but Tavarez is the one out of that list I have the most confidence in at this point. I was really impressed with his spot-starter duty towards the end of last season. I couldn't believe that the same pitcher who couldn't even throw one scoreless inning out of the pen was going 6-7 innings strong.

I wonder if we should start spring training with Tavarez at #5 and put Wakefield back in the pen? Is Wakefield getting too old for relief duty? It looks like Mirabelli won't be back in 2007, so maybe it would be for the best to limit Wakefield's pitches at any given time? (...if you buy into the theory that some catchers just won't ever learn to catch that damn knuckler).

Outside help is probably a must for the pen to improve substantially, but at what cost and how much extra $$$ is this team going to have left after paying Matsuzaka and most likely one of Lugo/Drew?

AutomatedTeller · 11-24-2006, 09:07 AM

I have friends who speculated the Tavarez was doctoring the ball (which he has been caught for doing in his career, if I remember correctly)

kensoxfan · 11-24-2006, 09:46 AM

I would guess/agree that Tavarez does doctor the ball & maybe he can get away with it with longer stints as he did at the end of year. As far as the closer is concerned I would like to see the Sox go get Cordero for WMP & whatever else it takes. If not, then give Gagne a shot if his arm looks good over the next 30 to 45 days or so. I expect Timlin to come back if he is not overused. There are other options out there, as slim as they might be, but more than likely via the trade route. If the Sox go out and get another starter while signing Matzsuzaka I would not be surprised to see Papelbon go back to the bullpen with the team monitoring him closely to make sure his arm is not worn out. Personally, I would not mind seeing a trade of Delcarmen or Hansen plus someone else to get a top notch relief pitcher.

WhosyourPapi???? · 11-24-2006, 11:35 PM

I would like to see Boston go aftert Lidge. He had a bad year last year so he will ocme a bit cheaper but he still has a lot of potential.

rubberball · 11-25-2006, 08:49 PM

lidge will cost too much in a trade. houston has lost a lot of pitching this winter and replaced it with woody williams; i dont see them trading him unless they are get something too good to be true.

Rice4HoF · 11-26-2006, 12:46 AM

Anyone ever consider doing something unorthodox like a closer-by-committee approach? [/ducks]

Spaceman · 11-26-2006, 12:24 PM

I would say go after Gagne. He was hurt last year and would come at a cheaper price. That being said, he could reform to the success he had in previous years.

AutomatedTeller · 11-30-2006, 04:39 PM

Sox
sign a LHP!

he'll be 31 on Christmas (so he's kind of an early present from Santa), has a "big" curve, and is a solid situational pitcher with big game experience (this is from that link - I know nothing about him)

He's probably going to be better than Javy Lopez.

So now the Sox pen looks like:

Timlin
Okajima
Delcarmen
Hansen
Tavarez
closer to be named later.

with guys like Lopez, DiNardo and the "picked up after being released" boys from last year.

EnderSwarm · 11-30-2006, 05:50 PM

Worth a shot, I guess. Seems like every league reliever we've acquired lately and asked to pitch well usually sucked. Let's go with something different this time. Maybe it will work.

WhosyourPapi???? · 12-01-2006, 10:46 AM

Hopefully, if Boston can aquire a closer(Cordero,Lidge ect. ect.) there bullpen will be great. Hansen and Delcarmen were both rookies last year and both did pretty good. With another year under there belts they will be great. Okajima might be good, or might not be good. Boston doesn't need a long term closer because in a few years(maybe by 2008) Hansen will be Boston's closer. I would like Boston to sign someone like Joe Borowski who has closed before just to stabalise our bullpen.

Zen653 · 01-22-2007, 04:57 PM

How about signing Jeff Zimmerman to a minor league deal? Due to an assortment of arm injuries and several Tommy John surgeries, he hasn't been able to pitch in the major leagues since 2001. However, he hasn't officially retired from baseball, and as recently as 2005, pitched in the Texas minor league system. He took 2006 off in order to rest his arm and is presumably available for 2007. While I normally wouldn't advocate signing a guy who has been out of MLB for six seasons, I think Zimmerman presents a unique case. Sometimes pitchers come back even stronger from Tommy John surgery and Zimmerman is only 34 years old. When he did pitch in the big leagues, he was an All-Star who had two sub-3 ERA seasons. And this was during the apex of the steroid era.

Given that the Red Sox still don't have an established closer, given that Zimmerman can't possibly cost more than the major league minimum, and given that he's a top notch pitcher when healthy, why not invite him to spring training? The worst thing that could happen is he flames out yet again, misses another season, and you lose a couple hundred thousand bucks. Would that really be so terrible? Meanwhile, look at the upside. He took all of 2006 off. Maybe he's finally healthy. Maybe he comes back to his dominant form and gives us some very good bang for the buck. These are the kinds of moves that Dan Duquette always used to make, and sometimes they actually worked out.

Rice4HoF · 01-22-2007, 11:37 PM

Since we missed out on the last Calgary pitcher who was a FA, I'm all for this one.

AutomatedTeller · 01-23-2007, 08:15 PM

I gotta agree with that, Zen. Say what you will about the Duke, he found the reclamation projects and put them in AAA where they belonged.

mets2k · 01-24-2007, 01:10 PM

Brendan Donnelly-R- Red Sox Jan. 23 - 10:46 pm et

Red Sox agreed to terms with RHP Brendan Donnelly on a one-year, $1.4 million contract.

The two sides settled at the midpoint of the $1.65 million request from Donnelly and the $1.15 million offer from the team. Donnelly, who is likely to serve as a setup man, can earn bonuses of $25,000 each if he finishes 25 games and 30 games.

11-24-2006, 12:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	Sox Bullpen Right now, the Sox pen looks like: Timlin Tavarez Delcarmen Hansen Lopez (LHP) Obviously, this isn't adequate. Who's the closer going to be? Gagne? Lidge? Who are the other setup men? Will this be even adequate? The rotation looks good, with Schilling, Beckett, Matz papelbon and Wakefield (assuming they do sign matz), but a bad pen will frustrate the starters.

11-24-2006, 09:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
kensoxfan New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: new hampshire Posts: 1	Relief pitching I would guess/agree that Tavarez does doctor the ball & maybe he can get away with it with longer stints as he did at the end of year. As far as the closer is concerned I would like to see the Sox go get Cordero for WMP & whatever else it takes. If not, then give Gagne a shot if his arm looks good over the next 30 to 45 days or so. I expect Timlin to come back if he is not overused. There are other options out there, as slim as they might be, but more than likely via the trade route. If the Sox go out and get another starter while signing Matzsuzaka I would not be surprised to see Papelbon go back to the bullpen with the team monitoring him closely to make sure his arm is not worn out. Personally, I would not mind seeing a trade of Delcarmen or Hansen plus someone else to get a top notch relief pitcher.

11-30-2006, 04:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	Sox sign a LHP! he'll be 31 on Christmas (so he's kind of an early present from Santa), has a "big" curve, and is a solid situational pitcher with big game experience (this is from that link - I know nothing about him) He's probably going to be better than Javy Lopez. So now the Sox pen looks like: Timlin Okajima Delcarmen Hansen Tavarez closer to be named later. with guys like Lopez, DiNardo and the "picked up after being released" boys from last year. Last edited by AutomatedTeller; 11-30-2006 at 04:41 PM.

11-30-2006, 05:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
EnderSwarm Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15	Worth a shot, I guess. Seems like every league reliever we've acquired lately and asked to pitch well usually sucked. Let's go with something different this time. Maybe it will work. Last edited by EnderSwarm; 11-30-2006 at 05:59 PM.

01-22-2007, 11:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rice4HoF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 60	Since we missed out on the last Calgary pitcher who was a FA, I'm all for this one. Last edited by Rice4HoF; 01-22-2007 at 11:39 PM. Reason: edit: fixed link

11-24-2006, 01:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
EnderSwarm Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15	The bullpen is definitely going to be our sore spot (again) this season unless our youngsters get better in a hurry. It almost hurts to say it, but Tavarez is the one out of that list I have the most confidence in at this point. I was really impressed with his spot-starter duty towards the end of last season. I couldn't believe that the same pitcher who couldn't even throw one scoreless inning out of the pen was going 6-7 innings strong. I wonder if we should start spring training with Tavarez at #5 and put Wakefield back in the pen? Is Wakefield getting too old for relief duty? It looks like Mirabelli won't be back in 2007, so maybe it would be for the best to limit Wakefield's pitches at any given time? (...if you buy into the theory that some catchers just won't ever learn to catch that damn knuckler). Outside help is probably a must for the pen to improve substantially, but at what cost and how much extra $$$ is this team going to have left after paying Matsuzaka and most likely one of Lugo/Drew?

11-24-2006, 09:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	I have friends who speculated the Tavarez was doctoring the ball (which he has been caught for doing in his career, if I remember correctly)

11-24-2006, 11:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
WhosyourPapi???? Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Calgary Posts: 36	I would like to see Boston go aftert Lidge. He had a bad year last year so he will ocme a bit cheaper but he still has a lot of potential.

11-25-2006, 08:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
rubberball Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 29	lidge will cost too much in a trade. houston has lost a lot of pitching this winter and replaced it with woody williams; i dont see them trading him unless they are get something too good to be true.

11-26-2006, 12:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
Rice4HoF Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 60	Anyone ever consider doing something unorthodox like a closer-by-committee approach? [/ducks]

11-26-2006, 12:24 PM	#8 (permalink)
Spaceman Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 11	I would say go after Gagne. He was hurt last year and would come at a cheaper price. That being said, he could reform to the success he had in previous years.

12-01-2006, 10:46 AM	#11 (permalink)
WhosyourPapi???? Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Calgary Posts: 36	Hopefully, if Boston can aquire a closer(Cordero,Lidge ect. ect.) there bullpen will be great. Hansen and Delcarmen were both rookies last year and both did pretty good. With another year under there belts they will be great. Okajima might be good, or might not be good. Boston doesn't need a long term closer because in a few years(maybe by 2008) Hansen will be Boston's closer. I would like Boston to sign someone like Joe Borowski who has closed before just to stabalise our bullpen.

01-22-2007, 04:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
Zen653 Hall of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,183	How about signing Jeff Zimmerman to a minor league deal? Due to an assortment of arm injuries and several Tommy John surgeries, he hasn't been able to pitch in the major leagues since 2001. However, he hasn't officially retired from baseball, and as recently as 2005, pitched in the Texas minor league system. He took 2006 off in order to rest his arm and is presumably available for 2007. While I normally wouldn't advocate signing a guy who has been out of MLB for six seasons, I think Zimmerman presents a unique case. Sometimes pitchers come back even stronger from Tommy John surgery and Zimmerman is only 34 years old. When he did pitch in the big leagues, he was an All-Star who had two sub-3 ERA seasons. And this was during the apex of the steroid era. Given that the Red Sox still don't have an established closer, given that Zimmerman can't possibly cost more than the major league minimum, and given that he's a top notch pitcher when healthy, why not invite him to spring training? The worst thing that could happen is he flames out yet again, misses another season, and you lose a couple hundred thousand bucks. Would that really be so terrible? Meanwhile, look at the upside. He took all of 2006 off. Maybe he's finally healthy. Maybe he comes back to his dominant form and gives us some very good bang for the buck. These are the kinds of moves that Dan Duquette always used to make, and sometimes they actually worked out.

01-23-2007, 08:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
AutomatedTeller Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 544	I gotta agree with that, Zen. Say what you will about the Duke, he found the reclamation projects and put them in AAA where they belonged.

01-24-2007, 01:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
mets2k Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 429	Brendan Donnelly-R- Red Sox Jan. 23 - 10:46 pm et Red Sox agreed to terms with RHP Brendan Donnelly on a one-year, $1.4 million contract. The two sides settled at the midpoint of the $1.65 million request from Donnelly and the $1.15 million offer from the team. Donnelly, who is likely to serve as a setup man, can earn bonuses of $25,000 each if he finishes 25 games and 30 games.