Braves and Glavine to Dance Again? - Page 6

pfiggy · November 20th, 2007, 08:54 AM

"You can't have a whole staff of old farts."

Bwahahahha, sounds like somethin' goobah would say. Ah don't want Tom the turd either.......just pfor the record. It'll be somewhat interesting to see how we have judged this signing, come next Sept.

renny · November 20th, 2007, 11:27 AM

Bwahahahha, sounds like somethin' goobah would say.

No, it don't. Goobah would say it like this, "You can't have a whole staff of old pfarts."

Two things:

1) The Braves did not hire Glavine to be our 2008 savior. The Braves wanted a dependable #3 who could pitch far enough into the game to lessen the load on the BP.

2) Considering the need for quality SP throughout the league, considering the dearth of such SP, considering the fact that some SP's were reupping with thier existing team and the rest required a ginormous contract, the Braves decided on Glavine.

Okay, a few more things:

3) Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

4) In the Braves' eyes, choosing a pitcher they are familiar with, who has a proven track record, and who wants to be here is not a bad thing. Having eight or so pitchers vying for a spot in the starting rotation is not a bad thing.

5) The previous rumblings are not a GoodHousekeeping Seal of Approval, they are just a thought process on why the Braves wanted Glavine.

Snowman · November 20th, 2007, 12:14 PM

Ah, I think we all understand why they did it. They just could have done so much better.

Hell, the ChiSox traded a better (now), much younger pitcher for a SS quite a bit worse than Renteria, and threw in some cash to pay part of his salary.

diceman · November 20th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Garland would have looked very good in a Braves uni.

LongtimeBravesFan · November 20th, 2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

As far as our budget goes, Hampton made $8 million. I don't really care how much of the Rockies' and Marlins' (delayed) money he gets.

I know, but its still $8 million more than he deserves.

Didn't we take Tyler Houston in the first round the same year Piazza went in the 62nd?

THe MLB draft is a big crapshoot. If VanPoppel hadn't decided to be a jerk we never would have gotten Chipper.

jpx7 · November 21st, 2007, 01:54 PM

I've always liked Glavine, even after his less-than-amicable departure from the Braves – and I think the press, in Atlanta and New York, as well as Schuerholz's stupid ego (my son is an eighth-round draft-pick!), contributed significantly to the supposed acrimony of his move to New York. And, though I personally watched and jeered each time he toed the rubber (thanks Horsie) against the Braves, joyfully witnessing his drubbing at their bats, against all other opponents he was the only Met that even a part of me wanted to see win. So, in a sense I am quite happy to see Glavine return.

On the other hand, I think there are myriad transactions that could have improved the Braves' rotation, and team, more than signing Glavine does; so, in another sense, his glorious returns fills me with some trepidation – free-agents, moreover 40+ change-up artist free-agents, governed as they are by caveat emptor.

Nonetheless, this acquisition was told by bird and seen with entrail from the moment Glavine opted out of his $13 million 2008 contract with New York (with a cool $3 million just for saying, Later.): he'd take his buyout, parlay it into a hometown "discount" ($8 m + $3 m = $2 m less than his option), and see that his collective Later! to baseball came out of that hometown. Since – thereafter – it was a foregone conclusion, I've been afforded the time to slowly but surely efface the on-the-other-hands from my mind; instead, hoping that Glavine has a 2004-type rebound season left in his arm for a swan song.

jpx7 · November 22nd, 2007, 08:32 PM

Say what you want about Glavine in the past, but I think – as of November 2007 – he has a pretty damn healthy perspective on himself and the current economics of the game:

Proving his desire to return home, Glavine declined options in his contract the past two offseasons and ended up signing for less than the options would have provided. Had he not made it known to other teams that he wanted to pitch for the Braves, Wren believes, the southpaw might have received something similar to the $13 million option that he declined from the Mets in October.

"I didn't think I was worth $13 million," Glavine said. "I don't think I'm that kind of pitcher anymore. There's enough pressure to go out and pitch in this game without the pressures of feeling that every time you go out there that you have to prove to people that you're worth something or worth a certain amount of money. "The last two years, I've forgone options that I had in my contract for more money than I ended up making simply because I don't view myself as a No. 1 guy anymore, and I don't think I should be paid that way. That's just the way that I am. That doesn't mean that I still can't go out there for stretches of time and pitch like a No. 1 guy [...]

"I still feel like I have some things left in my tank," he said. "I'm not sitting here telling you I'm going to win 20 games. But I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I won't, either. I pitched a lot of good games last year, and I still feel like I can do that. Looking at this team [Atlanta], there's a lot to like."

It could be a lot of posturing – and Glavine did receive $3 million just for not pitching for the Mets – but, I like Glavine enough myself to take him at his word: he could have taken that $3 million from New York and still made another $13 million, if you take Wren/Bowman at his/their word(s).

jpx7 · November 22nd, 2007, 08:42 PM

Also: an excellent article up at the Hardball Times examining why Glavine might still remain effective in 2008.

Snowman · November 22nd, 2007, 08:51 PM

From the THT article:

Quote:

While changeup probably isn't the first thing that comes to mind when you think of Glavine, this pitch has become his bread and butter.

Exactly when was it not his bread and butter? It's always been the first thing pitch I think of when I think of Glavine.

The problem is that he is telegraphing the changeup now. I'm sure as hell not a pro ballplayer, and even I can tell when he's going to throw it. His arm speed changes by a huge margin. That is the primary reason, ahead of the drop in Ks and the huge loss of velocity, that I'm so convinced he will continue a fast decline.

Quote:

Glavine posted one of his lowest strikeout totals of his career, getting slightly over four strikeouts per game. His walk rate stayed pretty much the same, but his groundball rate plummeted to under 42% as did his infield fly ball percentage. This increased his FIP to 4.86. The strong Mets defense kept his ERA at 4.45, but going forward Glavine will be counting on his defense more and more.

Those numbers aren't exactly promising, either.

jpx7 · November 22nd, 2007, 09:15 PM

"Exactly when was it not his bread and butter? It's always been the first thing pitch I think of when I think of Glavine."

That was my thought, upon reading that line, as well.

And, as I said, he might be able to continue to produce – but I didn't watch him enough in 2007 to notice something like his arm-action on different pitches, so I am only going on his numbers (and a pinch of the fact that he surprised me once before).

D55 · November 23rd, 2007, 06:51 AM

He's not worth 8 mil either. Sure, as we all grow older, we get nostalgic. I wish he was still in NY.

Why the drool fest JPX?

jpx7 · November 23rd, 2007, 09:23 AM

Well, like I said, I've liked Glavine since first watching him as a kid in the early 1990s; and, as I've been saying to Snow, I am undergoing a long process in which I convince myself that the Glavine signing is a good idea.

Perfect Cell · November 23rd, 2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

I didn't think I was worth $13 million," Glavine said. "I don't think I'm that kind of pitcher anymore

But he sees himself as a 11m Pitcher. (3m Buyout plus 8m contract).

diceman · November 23rd, 2007, 01:40 PM

I think this will be Tom's last season. He probably didn't want to be under the microscope in NY anymore and a contract like this is a nice retirement present from the Braves and the Mets. I see him as nothing more than a .500 pitcher now (if we're lucky) but I guess $11 mil is probably right nowadays for that kind of starter.

LongtimeBravesFan · November 23rd, 2007, 02:53 PM

Whenever something happens that I have no strong feelings about, I take the side that pisses off the most people. Since so many here and in Skanks land seem to be pissed off he signed, I say "Welcome home, Tommy"

November 20th, 2007, 11:27 AM	#77 (permalink)
renny Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: along side the veteran presents `) Posts: 2,038	Bwahahahha, sounds like somethin' goobah would say. No, it don't. Goobah would say it like this, "You can't have a whole staff of old pfarts." Two things: 1) The Braves did not hire Glavine to be our 2008 savior. The Braves wanted a dependable #3 who could pitch far enough into the game to lessen the load on the BP. 2) Considering the need for quality SP throughout the league, considering the dearth of such SP, considering the fact that some SP's were reupping with thier existing team and the rest required a ginormous contract, the Braves decided on Glavine. Okay, a few more things: 3) Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. 4) In the Braves' eyes, choosing a pitcher they are familiar with, who has a proven track record, and who wants to be here is not a bad thing. Having eight or so pitchers vying for a spot in the starting rotation is not a bad thing. 5) The previous rumblings are not a GoodHousekeeping Seal of Approval, they are just a thought process on why the Braves wanted Glavine. __________________ "We'll be back next year. We always are, aren't we?" -P Greg Maddux

November 20th, 2007, 12:14 PM	#78 (permalink)
Snowman Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Topsail Beach, NC Posts: 1,335	Ah, I think we all understand why they did it. They just could have done so much better. Hell, the ChiSox traded a better (now), much younger pitcher for a SS quite a bit worse than Renteria, and threw in some cash to pay part of his salary. __________________ That corpse you planted last year in your garden, Has it begun to sprout? Will it bloom this year? Or has the sudden frost disturbed its bed? If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college.

November 20th, 2007, 05:54 PM	#79 (permalink)
diceman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Port Orange, Florida Posts: 1,329	Garland would have looked very good in a Braves uni. __________________ From "Bull Durham": Skip: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry! Larry: Lollygaggers! Skip: Lollygaggers.

November 21st, 2007, 01:54 PM	#81 (permalink)
jpx7 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 568	I've always liked Glavine, even after his less-than-amicable departure from the Braves – and I think the press, in Atlanta and New York, as well as Schuerholz's stupid ego (my son is an eighth-round draft-pick!), contributed significantly to the supposed acrimony of his move to New York. And, though I personally watched and jeered each time he toed the rubber (thanks Horsie) against the Braves, joyfully witnessing his drubbing at their bats, against all other opponents he was the only Met that even a part of me wanted to see win. So, in a sense I am quite happy to see Glavine return. On the other hand, I think there are myriad transactions that could have improved the Braves' rotation, and team, more than signing Glavine does; so, in another sense, his glorious returns fills me with some trepidation – free-agents, moreover 40+ change-up artist free-agents, governed as they are by caveat emptor. Nonetheless, this acquisition was told by bird and seen with entrail from the moment Glavine opted out of his $13 million 2008 contract with New York (with a cool $3 million just for saying, Later.): he'd take his buyout, parlay it into a hometown "discount" ($8 m + $3 m = $2 m less than his option), and see that his collective Later! to baseball came out of that hometown. Since – thereafter – it was a foregone conclusion, I've been afforded the time to slowly but surely efface the on-the-other-hands from my mind; instead, hoping that Glavine has a 2004-type rebound season left in his arm for a swan song. Last edited by jpx7; November 21st, 2007 at 01:56 PM.

November 23rd, 2007, 01:40 PM	#89 (permalink)
diceman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Port Orange, Florida Posts: 1,329	I think this will be Tom's last season. He probably didn't want to be under the microscope in NY anymore and a contract like this is a nice retirement present from the Braves and the Mets. I see him as nothing more than a .500 pitcher now (if we're lucky) but I guess $11 mil is probably right nowadays for that kind of starter. __________________ From "Bull Durham": Skip: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry! Larry: Lollygaggers! Skip: Lollygaggers.

November 20th, 2007, 08:54 AM	#76 (permalink)
pfiggy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Location: Location: Posts: 3,716	"You can't have a whole staff of old farts." Bwahahahha, sounds like somethin' goobah would say. Ah don't want Tom the turd either.......just pfor the record. It'll be somewhat interesting to see how we have judged this signing, come next Sept.

November 22nd, 2007, 08:32 PM	#82 (permalink)
jpx7 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 568	Say what you want about Glavine in the past, but I think – as of November 2007 – he has a pretty damn healthy perspective on himself and the current economics of the game: Proving his desire to return home, Glavine declined options in his contract the past two offseasons and ended up signing for less than the options would have provided. Had he not made it known to other teams that he wanted to pitch for the Braves, Wren believes, the southpaw might have received something similar to the $13 million option that he declined from the Mets in October. "I didn't think I was worth $13 million," Glavine said. "I don't think I'm that kind of pitcher anymore. There's enough pressure to go out and pitch in this game without the pressures of feeling that every time you go out there that you have to prove to people that you're worth something or worth a certain amount of money. "The last two years, I've forgone options that I had in my contract for more money than I ended up making simply because I don't view myself as a No. 1 guy anymore, and I don't think I should be paid that way. That's just the way that I am. That doesn't mean that I still can't go out there for stretches of time and pitch like a No. 1 guy [...] "I still feel like I have some things left in my tank," he said. "I'm not sitting here telling you I'm going to win 20 games. But I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I won't, either. I pitched a lot of good games last year, and I still feel like I can do that. Looking at this team [Atlanta], there's a lot to like." It could be a lot of posturing – and Glavine did receive $3 million just for not pitching for the Mets – but, I like Glavine enough myself to take him at his word: he could have taken that $3 million from New York and still made another $13 million, if you take Wren/Bowman at his/their word(s).

November 22nd, 2007, 08:42 PM	#83 (permalink)
jpx7 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 568	Also: an excellent article up at the Hardball Times examining why Glavine might still remain effective in 2008.

November 22nd, 2007, 09:15 PM	#85 (permalink)
jpx7 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 568	"Exactly when was it not his bread and butter? It's always been the first thing pitch I think of when I think of Glavine." That was my thought, upon reading that line, as well. And, as I said, he might be able to continue to produce – but I didn't watch him enough in 2007 to notice something like his arm-action on different pitches, so I am only going on his numbers (and a pinch of the fact that he surprised me once before).

November 23rd, 2007, 06:51 AM	#86 (permalink)
D55 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 374	He's not worth 8 mil either. Sure, as we all grow older, we get nostalgic. I wish he was still in NY. Why the drool fest JPX?

November 23rd, 2007, 09:23 AM	#87 (permalink)
jpx7 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 568	Well, like I said, I've liked Glavine since first watching him as a kid in the early 1990s; and, as I've been saying to Snow, I am undergoing a long process in which I convince myself that the Glavine signing is a good idea.

November 23rd, 2007, 02:53 PM	#90 (permalink)
LongtimeBravesFan Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,662	Whenever something happens that I have no strong feelings about, I take the side that pisses off the most people. Since so many here and in Skanks land seem to be pissed off he signed, I say "Welcome home, Tommy"