Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIncredibleRox
So conservatives are bad for America, and liberals are good. That's a second rate, 3rd-grade, emotional argument that holds no water.
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Oversimplification of what I'm saying. Again, both camps have some elements that can help America. Neither camp has full possession of the truth, or has all the solutions for America.
However, ON NET, I believe the liberal philosophy has done ENORMOUS good for America over the past 100 years. You wish to cherry pick programs that you feel were harmful to America, and yes, perhaps some have not done what was intended (even under Bush, such as "No Child Left Behind", this is true), and governmental intervention can have unintended consequences. Still, ON NET, it is better that we have an activist government for the COMMONS.
What do I mean by "the commons"? Just like a condominium complex with a homeowners association, there are common areas of a nation that has to be taken care of by the nation's "hoa". Yes, think of a nation as a gigantic condo complex, and you'll see what I mean. After all, this "multi-dwelling unit" that is 3,000 miles wide and contains 110 million housing units, is nothing more than a macro version of that complex, and our federal government is nothing more than a humongous version of that homeowners association. Our taxes to the federal government are really nothing more than a federal version of "homeowners fees".
When you look at it that way, and you accept the notion that Americans each have common areas that need to be improved and maintained, you'll understand the liberal mindset much better. If you own a condo, do you refuse to pay your HOA fees because the association overpays for things like landscaping, new paint and carpet, gabage pickup, security, and perhaps the heat? Maybe, but they are deemed necessary by the homeowners in order to improve their quality of life at the condo complex and enhance the value of their homes. Likewise, in America, we pay for things on a national level that addresss COMMON areas of interest for Americans, such as roads and bridges, educational assistance, environmental protections, hopefully healthcare, old age security, and naturally our national security.
Liberals think the COMMONS are more all-encompassing than conservatives do. Liberals think the government should play a role, where private industry can't or won't, in addressing these common needs. It's really not that complicated, TIR, and you should not hate us liberals for wanting our government to be responsible and active in addressing the citizens' collective needs, the "commons".
Now, liberals agree that the rights of the individual in this country are sacrosanct, and essential to keep America where the founders intended it to be. This includes CIVIL LIBERTIES, and thus liberals support the ACLU, which many of you conservatives lambast as some sort of subversive "commie" organization. We liberals think civil liberties have to be protected for ALL citizens, not just those with whom we agree. Hence, we find aspects of the Patriot Act repulsive. Hence, we find warrantless wiretapping to be UN-American. Hence, we find torture techniques such as waterboarding to be UN-American. Hence, we find the loss of Habeus Corpas rights to infringe on civil liberties and to be UN-American.
Yes, SOME conservatives are TERRIBLE at preserving American values and individual rights. In that sense, I totally agree with Ron Paul and Libertarian thought. I believe both the Constitution needs protecting and our individual civil liberties need to be guarded vigilantly. Because Bush has failed miserably at this while expanding the role of the "unitary executive", I think he and Cheney should have been impeached long ago. Of course, that'll never happen now due to spineless Democrats in Congress, and this being his final year, and election year.
I hope these posts are at least helping you understand, TIR, where the liberal mind is coming from. We believe in both the COMMONS and the NEED to protect every individual's rights in this country. Government, though, NEEDS to address the common problems people share in the USA. If not the government, then who? Not all common needs are addressed by corporations, TIR, and that's where liberals most differ from conservatives.