The question has been raised, who is the fifth man in the Rockies rotation? Started by poster BigRapidsJackass the Rockies fans are stuck trying to figure out whether to go stopgap (someone else’s suck), deep into their minors or just go heavy with the relievers.

John Cocktoston would like the club to go with Franklin Morales, but also stresses that the chances for the Rockies rest on Francis, Cook and a resurgent bullpen.

BigRapidsJackass woud prefer that Buchholz return to the rotation, or get some other teams’ castoff rather than go with Morales.

Plenty of back and forth in this one, and I don’t have a clue which would best for this club, but I do know a great debate and of the need for a fifth starter.

What do you think the best man is for the job in Colorado?

Originally putforward here by poster LouGehrig, the theory seems impressive. Fifty-six game hitting streak. No one has been close really for years, and yet is this really all that significant?

Grandstander says no, but not quite that simply;

In baseball, what counts is how many per opportunity over the course of a year. How these happen to get arranged within any particular number of games is utterly unimportant. If you divide the season into three 54 game segments and Player A gets 220 hits while player B gets 200 hits, but player B happened to have gotten at least one hit in each game of one of those 54 game segments, that in no manner boosts his value past player A.

For 1941, Dimaggio hit .357 in 541 at bats. During the streak he was 91 for 223, .408. That means that in the other games, he was 102 for 315, .321.

What it all actually means is that he hit .357 in 1941. That is exactly as valuable as any other player who has hit .357 with the same secondary stats. That a large portion of his total contribution was concentrated in a 56 game segment….means zip.

DiMaggio hit .408 during a 56 game stretch. That same year, Ted Williams hit .406 for the whole season. Unable to grasp that the streak meant nothing in terms of boosting the Yankees fortunes, the writers voted DiMaggio the MVP. A ridiculous award for a fluke accomplishment.

This leads me to what I think the actual remaining record is that would impress both the saber and scouting communities, Nap Lajoie’s .4265 single season modern era batting average mark. Since World War Two, new Hall of Famer Tony Gwynn was closest back in the strike damaged season of 1994 when he hit .3938. That record being broken wouldn’t be a fluke, but a full season of success, not 56 games of hits, but 162.

Take your opinion on the greatest remaining record to the thread

Searching through forums the past day or two I discovered this gem on the St.Louis Cardinals board, finely moderated by BleacherBum593. I think it is a post that could only occur on a Cardinals forum, because what other team would have fans of a team 7 games out and 7 games under .500 believe that they are still in the hunt?

These aren’t fools, but well thought out fans that watched an 83 win team take home the only trophy that matters.

GoCrazyFolks leads it off with this, a summation of the issues facing the Cards come the deadline of just over a week ago.

1) What do we do if at the deadline and for the rest of the year if TLR is to stay?

2) If TLR is gone who should replace him? And what should we do at the deadline and for the rest of this year?

Following the banter and speculation though is when things get a bit interesting, the faith in the club gets to be fairly apparent. Coop (he of Gamethread and Minor League Thread fame) sounds off with the idea that a youth movement makes the club more competitive.

I’m with you, BrotherBri, about Jose Oquendo. I would like to see the youth movement begin now. I do not consider that giving up at all. I think we have young players that can add enthusiasm and win as much, or more. With high salaries and no-trade clauses, I wouldn’t think there would be a large movement of players. I don’t think they will be less likely to have a winning streak. With 2 good teams ahead of us, it is a steep hill anyway. With Tony, we had some good, but he won’t try young players, except when he doesn’t have anybody else. He seems agitated about everything. I wish he would choose to leave, now, but I don’t think there is any way he will.

But the real kicker, for me as a Mariner fan is this one from Ewttexas

I’m starting to view this season with a weird perspective. Ask youself a couple of questions. Does our record really make a difference? Does it matter whether we win 100 games or 80 if the team comes out on top? What I am seeing is that the teams in front of us are not setting the woods on fire and those behind are not breathing down our necks. We should have won the last 2 games. They’re over-let’s move on.
Ever the optimist, I saw some good signs in those games. Pitching is the priority and both Wells and Reyes showed vast improvement. The offense is what has let us down. I think that it was Coop that said that Shannon thought that Eck was playing hurt. If that’s the case, put him back on the DL and bring Brendan back.
I think that our season rests on the arm of Pineiro. If he turns out to be a steal ala Woody and Finley, we have a shot. Wainwright, Wells, Pineiro and Reyes. There is little choice for #5. I believe that Thompson and Looper have had it for the year. Too many innings. Looper was good at the beginning but he’s a career reliever. Thompson has flip-flopped between starting and the pen and it has taken its toll. There is no real help at Memphis unless you want to give Keisler another chance. We’re down to Maroth. He’s somewhere between starting and being DFAd. I wish that he could go to Memphis to straighten out telegraphing his pitches but I don’t know if we have that luxury. Looper is scheduled to go on Monday. It could be a disaster waiting to happen. The only solution I can imagine is to DFA Maroth and bring back Keisler. Assuming that Maroth clears waivers, keep it that way until he gets it figured out. Treat the 5th day as a BP day. Leave Keisler in as long as possible and go to the pen for the rest of the game.
In short, it’s not over yet. We still have plenty of games with Milw and Chicago but we need to be in a position to take advantage of them. Albert has been in an Albert slump lately and Dunc has slowed a bit. The dog days of August are upon us. Rolen and Edmonds seem to be coming around so the offense should get back on track.
The fat lady hasn’t sung but she’s warming up. It’s time for the Cards to do the same.

An optimist who sees Joel Piniero as the answer … with the smoke and mirrors (and a good bit of Carpenter and Pujols) the Cardinals won a World Series last year. Now with fewer peices there is still hope, though faint in St. Louis.

Poster nanwynnfan offers his opinion on Bonds and Selig at the time when Bonds has tied the record and looks now for the truly historical home run that beats the hallowed numbers of Aaron. Initial post (read here) and to follow:

Will he? Or won’t he? The questions have nothing to do with Barry Bonds hitting #755 or #756 during a particular game or at bat; but asked whether the Commissioner of Baseball, Bud Selig, will condescend to being in attendance.

Or, we are treated to former Commissioner Fay Vincent going on and on about his close friendship with Henry Aaron, ever the class act, and how Vincent is wrestling with his internal demons in differentiating between love of the Game and its hallowed records and his human biases, based of course, on his personal observation of clues, hints, innuendo and player hat size.

Then we have a commentator, hearing far more boos from a crowd than is audible on the television broadcast, completely overlooking the historic Dodger-Giant rivalry in one park and the customary visitor-home rivalry in another. Not only does he amplify the boo volume; but he is also compelled to explain it in terms of fans conflicted by their suspicions of the moral integrity of the player they all paid to see.

The Commissioner is invited to join the broadcast team in the booth; but he declines, for reasons unexplained, although the turn-down is definitive enough to provoke one to ask, why.

The finale is the terrible burden on broadcaster wardrobes, and the drain on the Commisioner, forced to schlep around after a player whose accomplishments he questions, also sartorially challenged - as if he were bivouaced in a Baghdad windstorm, poor fella.

Please, Barry, hit four in one game and put an exclamation point on the accomplishment. This old man is weary with asterisks, and the asses who seem to need them to justify their injured righteousness.

End of rant.

To read the rest of the responses, or to add your own click here